Wednesday, 7 November 2012

comments 3


  • EricGreenwood
    7 November 2012 10:38PM
    Response to AylesburyOx, 7 November 2012 10:28PM
    No my job centre adviser said a4e are sanction happy. I have never been sanctioned because of the only thing i ever learned at a4e. is to cover my back. dont trust them, read every single bit of paper you sign. Cover your back at all times with a4e. I used to work in the job centre, I have been on both sides. the job centre cannot sanction you if you are on the work programme. Once again you dont mention who you work for. I print off every job i apply for, i print off every email i send for jobs. i send a copy to my adviser at a4e. I cover my back. Because i know a4e are sanction happy. I have never missed an appointment, i am always there about 30 minutes beforehand.. i make sure they know i am there. But i have heard from people who have been sanctioned for no reason. Like one of the people on this topic. The work programme will never work, there are no jobs. the fact that jonty wants more money for a4e and the work programme people shows it isnt working.
    this was done under the last government as well. 29 jobs applied for in 21 days.. yet its always my fault.. that 10k was just a4e people they sanctioned.
  • EricGreenwood
    7 November 2012 10:30PM
    Response to AylesburyOx, 7 November 2012 10:16PM
    I see you have used the Neuro linguistic Programming phrase.. So the work programme isnt there to get people jobs its to make people job ready.. If there were real jobs out there there wouldnt be 2 million plus unemployed.. I know my career knew it from when i was 8 years old. I want a job something that these schemes never get people. If they cant get WORK for people in the WORK programme, then they are not doing their job
    Essentially NLP says It is your fault for not getting a job. forget the recession, forget the 2 million plus unemployed, forget the outsourcing to other countries.. It is YOUR fault YOU havent got a job. No its the employers not hiring the long term unemployed.
  • AylesburyOx
    7 November 2012 10:28PM
    Response to EricGreenwood, 7 November 2012 10:06PM
    Right, just to be clear the Work Programme don't issue the sanctions, they can only recommend them. 
    10,000 does seem very high so I agree there was probably some 'trigger happy' use of the system.
    However...
    When people do nothing, apply for nothing, go nowhere and provide no evidence of active job seeking they leave Advisors with very few options. Most people will get a chance; I hear some A4es offer a '3 strikes' policy and then will refer the person for a sanction. 
    If you claim JSA you must be actively job seeking and by actively job seeking you will be able to evidence this. If your Advisor is talking about sanctions then something is going amiss. If you aren't attending appointments, whether you think them necessary or not then you are leaving yourself open to a sanction. 
    If your job search information consists of 'looked in newspaper' or 'spoke to mate' then you are leaving yourself open to a sanction. This is the reality we are living in. You either work with it or suffer, I'm sorry but while this government is in power there are few grey areas left.
  • AylesburyOx
    7 November 2012 10:16PM
    Response to ArbeitMachtFrei, 7 November 2012 10:00PM
    Complain about the problem, not fix it ? Interesting.
    It is not the WP trying to make these people work ready, it is the DWP. You are right that they are just the foot soldiers and I'm sorry about your 'wholly negative' experience but don't tar them all with the same brush, as most are very good at what they do. 
    No but you mistake the Work Programme as a provider of employment for people referred to them, they are there to support, develop and encourage clients into work. If the opportunities are there then hopefully they will find them. If they are not and in some cases may never be there then they will actively encourage people to retrain and look at other options. 
    Show me absolute proof of fraud from the top down and I will believe it. At the moment you are just talking about things being 'unfair' well I'm sorry but people who voted in this government should of known that fairness wasn't on the agenda.
    1. Real jobs are out there - please do look at your local labour market information. Found on your county council website.
    2. This I absolutely agree with - there are too many wooly courses and for too long businesses have gotten away with 'in house' qualifications. However CV sessions and NLP sessions will lead to people getting jobs.
    3. Try the National Careers Service, they are there for exactly that purpose.
  • EricGreenwood
    7 November 2012 10:06PM
    Response to AylesburyOx, 7 November 2012 9:41PM
    so the fact that 10,000 people being put forward by a4e to be sanctioned is a lie.. and that only 3,000 were recgonised that meant 7,000 was put forward and no case was found.. Is that a lie. Is it a lie that people have been threatened with sanctions for not doing as they are told.. Is it a Lie.. Is this story a Lie http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2012/jun/30/david-cameron-work-firms-benefits?newsfeed=true Is this a LIE http://www.billesterson.org.uk/aintree-jobseeker-gets-help-from-labour-mp-bill-esterson-in-expo
    Is this a Lie as well http://www.billesterson.org.uk/crosby-woman-turns-to-labour-mp-with-catalogue-of-complaints-abo what about the other people are they all liars too
  • ArbeitMachtFrei
    7 November 2012 10:00PM
    Response to AylesburyOx, 7 November 2012 9:14PM
    Well now! You say
    Clearly you would rather complain about there being problem than try to find a solution. Shame.
    This will not do - The first step to finding a solution is to recognise that there is a problem. Having recognised that there is a problem the next step is to complain about it.
    My experience of WP "advisers" has not been wholly negative. They are the foot soldiers trying to make an unworkable system work - the more intelligent of them realise this and move on to pastures new asap. There is no point trying to make the 2 million plus pool of unemployed "work ready" if there is no work for them to be ready for. This just results in an inordinately expensive game of musical chairs where there is a constant recycling of people through the WP at tremendous cost to the taxpayer and tremendous profit to the providers.
    Someone needs to recognise that no matter how much cash is thrown at the providers the WP won't produce employment - just ever richer providers. I resent this!
    As for "hidden fraud". I place great faith on the testimony of the one time chief auditor at both A4e and Working Links who has courageously testified to the poor and fraudulent practices at both. OK - this was in the past but it didn't stop lucrative government contracts being awarded to the same companies. What bigger endorsement of their methods could there be?
    The WP isn't working and won't ever work in its present format. What is needed is:
    1. Real jobs - personally I don't care whether they're private or public sector.
    2. Real education and training - by "real" I mean that which is relevant to the jobs at 1 (above). not CV writing, NLP sessions etc. etc.
    3. Good, professional empathetic career guidance.
    Personally I believe this is better provided by the public sector as it is too long term for the likes of A4e to consider relevant. A4e and their ilk have just become government subsidised employment agencies and their staff just sales people armed with sanction threats.
  • tornadojay
    7 November 2012 9:57PM
    People r being sanctioned for not doing any thing wrong them selfs i no that for a fact because im one off them,but ive been able to prove i was right and won how many were not so lucky i dont no but bet theres many out there
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